tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN June 9, 2012 2:00am-3:00am EDT
>> they left most of the jobs plan just sitting there, and in light of the head winds that we're facing right now, i urged them to reconsider because there are steps to take right now to put more people back to work. >> the president is angry that congress has not passed his jobs bill, which sat on the shelf since last fall. part of it did pass. the payroll tax cut extension and long-term unemployment insurance, but the president wants to pass the rest immediately and the price tag is $297 billion. his bill summary, which we obtained from the white house, says that money will go to things like preventing teacher layoffs, modernizing schools, building science labs for a total of $297 billion. does spending more add up? we wanted to know the answer to that question. we did the math on how much money taxpayers have spent on stimulus since it began in 2008 under george w. bush. the first stimulus bill, this was president obama's in the
spring of 2009, $831 billion. and unemployment benefits passed since that time, $185 billion and the payroll tax cut extension $93 billion, $69 billion has not been paid back and ben bernanke's tag, $2.8 trillion. if you add in the $297 billion the cost of the jobs bill, $3.8 trillion. $3.8 trillion. that is a stunning and shocking number, and here we are almost four years exactly after the financial crisis began. according to research first -- firm btig, america till has 735,000 fewer jobs than at the peak in 2007. of course, that's just an absolute number. there are more people at working age now, so the hole is significantly bigger than that. so will borrowing money now turn
it around or is this a case of diminishing returns? 100 billion, 300 billion, and then 3.8 trillion, throwing more money at a problem may or may not help fix it. "outfront" is robert reich and dan mitchell senior fellow at the cato institute. dan, i want to make it clear that given the timing of the financial crisis, most of that money was spent under barack obama, but george bush started it with the t.a.r.p. plan and before the crisis began he did a stimulus plan earlier that year. this is a bipartisan stimulus spending environment, and i'm wondering whether you think it's worth spending any more? >> i agree with you completely. bush was a big spender, interventionist and obama is a big spender. and an interventionist. but it's not a question of diminishing returns, it's negative returns. keynesian economics didn't work for hoover and roosevelt in the '30s and japan in the '90s.
we should copy countries like singapore and hong kong and estonia and switzerland that keep government spending under control. more resources in the productive sector of the economy is the key to long-run sustainable growth. >> bob reich, should we be spending more right now? i mean, even if you were in the camp to get more money earlier, if you didn't get it, does it make sense to put a few hundred billion here, or is that piecemeal way not going to do it? >> as long as the private sector continues to hold back in terms of hiring and utilizing resources, as long as we continue to have high unemployment, the question is where is the boost going to come from? where is the growth going to come from? unfortunately or fortunately we only have one force left to actually boost the economy and that's called government. over the long term dan is right. we have to get government spending under control. over the long term. just like we came coming out of the great depression, we had world war ii which was a massive government program.
i'm certainly not advocating anything like that. but that got us out of the depression. when you have that much underutilized capacity and unemployment, you have to have spending. >> now you have the debt and it's rising, robert. you spend more money, the private sector goes i'm so worried about indebtedness in this country and they might batten down the hatches more as opposed to opening them up. >> i think it's done to the dominant european philosophy, you have a lot of capacity not being used that has got things worse in europe. that means a deeper recession. that means fewer people working, that means fewer -- less revenues into government. or whether you embrace i don't care what you call it keynesianism or cottage cheese, whether you embrace the notion if the boost is not going to come from the private sector, at least immediately in the short term it's got to come from government.
what i think the president is saying and what he said today, congress, i'm not asking for the moon. i'm asking for some common sense, targeted things that we need to do with regard to the mortgage crisis which goes on, with regard to providing tax breaks for businesses to hire people. and with regard to simply creating an environment that is more conducive because of enough stimulus in the economy to get things going. >> dan, i mean, specifically, i mean, you can go through any one of these and make fun of the line items and laugh at them, but there's a serious point that robert is making. when you look at the gap that we have in this country, the estimates -- very rational ones that 35% of our budget gap is because of revenue, you know, so we get more people working, you get more revenue. that might make the argument for stimulus to get them working. >> but the question gives you so o-called stimulus? i don't think that government
borrowing a bunch of money out of the private sector, spending it on cronies of the administration is a recipe for growth. now, robert talked about europe. i think europe is very instructive because there's a giant difference between what i call public sector austerity and private sector austerity. in countries like france and england and italy they're raising taxes, they're squeezing the private sector for their quote/unquote austerity. i look at the baltics, estonia especially, they cut government spending. not the make believe way we do it in washington, in estonia in 2009, in 2010, government was actually smaller. they're now growing. a big feature in the news about how they're prospering even though they have the euro just line greece. i think the lesson from europe is high taxes is the wrong kind of austerity. less government spending is the recipe for freeing up resources for the productive sector of the economy.
>> thanks to both of you. i have to hit pause there. we'll have them back and please let us know what you think. we know you feel strongly and not about the same things on that issue. still outfront, who will be mitt romney's right hand man? yes, it does appearance that most likely it will be a man. but who knows. vp poll. they just voted. and how americans feel about a controversial new immigration law. the results, frankly, shocking to many. and a federal agents found the drug that's responsible for the string of flesh-eating attacks? we have some more information for you tonight. [ male announcer ] this is the at&t network... a living breathing intelligence bringing people together to bring new ideas to life. look. it's so simple. [ male announcer ] in here, the right minds from inside and outside the company come together to work on an idea. adding to it from the road, improving it in the cloud
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what you don't know about flood insurance may shock you -- including the fact that a preferred risk policy starts as low as $129 a year. for an agent, call the number that appears on your screen. our second story "outfront," the vp pageant. a parade of potential romney vps took center stage at a meeting of conservatives in illinois. here there are. >> barack obama's leadership is driving this business, the
united states of america towards a fiscal cliff. >> we can't afford another four more years of this administration. >> let's look at the record. 40 months of unemployment over 8.1%. that may be the best that barack obama can do, but that is not the best that america can do. >> a new poll out from the conservative political action conference shows marco rubio is number one. he got 30% of the vote. a distant second, new jersey governor chris christie, followed by paul ryan at 9%. other notables as running mates, rob portman and john thune and tim pawlenty. but the big question isn't not just who mitt romney will choose, but when. row land, i'm thinking of everybody making their choice. they wait until the conventions. what's the strategy here? i mean, you get a lot of benefit from the speculation game, but
when's the right moment for him to make the choice? >> the right moment is when they choose it, right before the convention. again, the more time you give the folks in the media that means a lot more stories a lot more drama. you want to shrink the window, if you think. the thing about this poll, first of all, we didn't say 520 people voted. boy, a huge number of folks voting on this choice. so if you look at the people who are were at the bottom, those are likely the people that mitt romney is likely to consider versus those at the on the of this actual vote. >> are you surprised? i could say marco rubio, obviously favorite of conservatives. rick santorum. others on that list. but chris christie, he's got the most liberal -- conservative gun laws in the country. he is -- the guy is considered a liberal by a lot of conservatives. >> he is, but he's a great name for republicans. he's a fun guy. he says things as it is. he's got that new jersey brashness, if you will.
i think -- i'm not surprised by the result of marco rubio. look, this is not a people's choice award. it's a mitt romney's choice. but these cpac polls, he won the cpac poll when it was still in the primaries. i think ruio would be a great choice. he has a deep bench of great candidates to choose from. for vice president. i think, you know, folks like portman came in low because they don't have as much name i.d. certainly mitt romney knows him. he's a solid choice. as is tim pawlenty. but somebody like rob portman does not have the name i.d. in front of the cpac crowd. >> yeah, mitt romney did win the cpac vote in february. i was there for a day. trust me, when his name is mentioned it's not like the room was enthusiastic. so obviously, very conservative crowd here. but if you're mitt romney, you really want a candidate who can do no harm.
frankly, i think out of all the people on here portman is getting all this attention, i personally think bob mcdonald is a lot closer to -- in terms of what mitt romney may need. governor from virginia. the story he can tell. so i think, you know, i think so much heat has been on portman. i think a lot more may go toward mcdonald once the choice is made. >> and three of the guys -- three of those guys are from very important swing states. >> of course. >> rob portman is from ohio, marco rubio from florida. and mcdonald is from virginia. i think the geography may be a factor in this one -- in this race. >> roland, what about chris christie though? i mean, he's been tireless campaigning on mitt romney's behalf, endorsed him really early and the guy is a fighter. i mean, he would be a good debate with joe. >> first of all, a lot of us in the media love chris christie because he's a walking talking sound bite. he will throw a punch at somebody if he could. but again, one of the issues
that you have to ask yoursf if you get a chris chris tee, what do you get with th? you have mr. dry and dull as all get out mitt romney. do you want to be in the position where your vp nominee could overshadow you? we know how that went last time for the republican, didn't go well. i think mr. boring will choose somebody equally boring. >> you have to admit though, you have to admit though, the thought of biden/christie debate is entertaining. >> but ain't nobody voting for the vice president. they're voting for the president. >> i don't know. we'll see. this is a good one. thanks so much to both of you. they'll be back. next a showdown at the ok corral. we take you outfront to tombstone, arizona, where there is a fight over one of the most precious items on the planet. there will not be a triple crown winner this year. just a day before the belmont i'll have another scratched.
feud. on one side, the city, on the other the federal government. the two are in a fight over one of the most precious commodities on earth -- water. we sent martin savidge out deep to find out who will win the water war. >> reporter: tombstone loves a good showdown. at the ok corral there's one twice a day. each year, 400,000 tourists come to the town that is the old west. since the 1880s it's survived gunslingers, and mines that went bust. but they might have met their match. >> we're at war with the u.s. forest service. >> reporter: it starts with a pipeline that brings the water to the town. >> the water line here as you'll see is pretty long. it runs literally about 26 miles from the city of tombstone all the way across to the mountains.
>> reporter: fires and floods have knocked out the pipes before. what's the problem now? >> well, what's happened since is the existence of the wilderness act and the national forest. >> reporter: in 1984, congress declared the national forest around tombstone springs a federally protected wilderness. preserving it for future generations, letting nature take its course and banning anything mechanical. and i mean anything. so it's true that a wheelbarrow would be prohibited? under the wilderness act? >> that's correct. >> reporter: which has made kevin rudd's job difficult. >> we walk in, we carry picks and shovels and the materials are up on our shoulders and we access it on foot now. >> reporter: it's tough going. you can understand why this seems to be the intersection of bureaucracy and common sense. >> correct. >> reporter: and that has people scratching their heads. >> right. and i say that i don't like
bureaucracy and i like to think that i use common sense. but in this case, i have to make sure that we comply with the laws and regulations. >> reporter: after a few months the forest service relented and let in the machines and the water is flowing again. it rumbles through there. but tombstone wants to do a lot more work that could take years. the forest service says it's willing to consider after it sees the plans and completes the necessary impact studies. tombstone says it can't afford to wait and it shouldn't have to it's filed a lawsuit against the national forest service. >> we're at risk. tombstone doesn't have the water it needs to protect its citizens. >> reporter: tombstone's showdown is popular with some across the country, who send the town their support in the form of shovels. >> martin, where are you right now? i know that you're not anywhere near a road or anything.
tell me where you are, how long it took you to get there, martin. >> reporter: yeah, erin, we're up in the mountains which are outside tombstone, some 26 miles away from the city. it was a two-mile hike to get here, up steep terrain. took over an hour. but this is essentially the source of the water for tombstone behind us. one of the springs and there's a work crew here. it was part protest and part work crew and they were using only picks and shovels, trying to protect the spring. they fear next month the monsoons could damage them, so they're trying to reinforce them now. they hope to continue that protest and work tomorrow. >> and how come shovels, why not drill wells? >> reporter: you know, that's a good question. i asked the same one. in tombstone they say it costs about $1 million to drill a well and the problem they have around here is arsenic. they have already three well,
two are contaminated with arsenic. they can't afford to spend $1 million and then run into a well that's got arsenic. this is the most affordable choice they've got. >> thanks very much to martin savidge, reporting from arizona where a lot of out of state volunteers are trying to dig for the water. still outfront, hopes of i'll have another's triple crown over. he was forced to withdraw from the belmont. the horse's owner tells me about how he made that heart breaking decision. do americans think police should stop suspicious people and check their immigration status? well, we have an exclusive poll here at cnn. it could influence federal law. that's next. i'm an expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. massmutual. we'll help you get there.
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welcome back to the second half of "outfront" on a friday. we start with stories we care about, where we focus on the own reporting from the front lines and we have breaking news tonight. attorney general eric holder assigned two attorneys to investigate possible leaks of classified information. the attorneys will direct investigations that are currently being conducted by the fbi. earlier today, the president denied the leaks came from the white house, calling the idea offensive. washington became concerned about leaks when classified details about a u.s. cyber attack targeting iran were published in the new book by
david sanger. and an e. coli outbreak has sickened six people. one child is dead in louisiana and other states where people are sick, georgia, alabama, california, florida and tennessee. officials don't know the source of the outbreak but elizabeth cohen said investigators are focussing on meat and produce. people started to get sick in april. most recent case was june 4. well the controversial stand your ground laws are going to be reviewed by a government panel to see if they are biassed against minorities. the stand your ground law has been linked to george zimmerman who shot and killed trayvon martin. we need to know whether or not all other factors being equal the race of the victim or the perpetrator plays a role in determining the application of these laws. this is significant because 24 states in this country have some form of stand your ground law. well, 18 victims of child pornography were rescued in nationwide raids. it was dubbed operation ryan.
federal law enforcement agencies arrested 190 people for distributing, receiving and producing child pornography. suspects were arrested in 33 states and puerto rico. in a statement obtained by "outfront," immigrations and customs enforcement director warned parents about monitoring their child's internet use, saying that a lot began with a child or a teen chatting with someone they met online. well, it's been 309 days since the u.s. lost the top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? the s&p said you're not getting it back yet. we could be in line for another downgrade if congress doesn't do something about the debt problem. fiscal cliff. now our fourth story. triple crown dashed. i'll have another is out of the belmont. he was the first horse since 1936's bold venture to win the derby and the preakness and then scratch out of the belmont. i was at the racetrack when the news broke. and the trainers and the vets
and the jockey were visibly forlorn. attendance at the race could be lower. i talked to the owner, paul reddam, and asked him about the day. >> i probably tonight -- go wait a minute. we're supposed to be getting ready for the belmont. and the horse racing is a very tough game in that, you know, horses are very delicate creatures and things could happen to them. and unfortunately, pete decided today was the day for i'll have another to end his career. >> how hard was it to make the decision? you're so close to something that's been so elusive. >> well, making the decision itself was actually easy. because when doug o'neill and i were talking, he said that the horse -- he seemed to have a little heat in his leg. he might have wrapped it. you know?
which horses sometimes do. which is nothing, right? just a skin -- so he said, well, we should have the vet look at it. i was thinking that, but i would cause such a hoopla if the vet comes over here. if the hoopla, the vet comes over and he said the horse is 100%, then you did the wright thing anyway. okay, that makes sense to me. he called the vet. i'll call you back in an hour. he goes, i can't exactly repeat what he said because he was swearing. but he was like -- it was unbelievable. paul, he's -- he's got the start of a possible tendon and, you know, we could run him, but you know, that might not be the best thing. and i said, doug, you're absolutely right. horses when they have tendons, you can rest them. he's got basically a lesion and, you know, we wouldn't want to make that worse. we don't want to risk his health or the jockey's health. you can give a horse a year off
and hope they come back from that, but in my experience they never come back to the level that they were. fate just says today is today. >> gosh, it was like 1978 was the last triple crown winner. the last time someone was one, two and dropped out, it was 1976. in your heart it's got to be heart. >> in my heart, i was very confident in the horse for tomorrow. he had been training with very good energy and before the preakness i was really nervous before that race in thinking this is the tough one to get over. the preakness. belmont, the way that he runs and his pedigree said he'd relish the mile and a half. doug got him in great cardiovascular. we thought yesterday, we don't need to do any exercise, he's 100%. so that came out of nowhere. >> i asked about why haven't we had a triple crown winner and a
lot is since they train them really young to sell them. maybe that damages the horse. they become more frail and more quickly to get injured when they're 3-year-olds because they race so hard when they were younger. is that something you think is true? a reform that could change in the industry? >> well, i think that when you take a very young horse and you exercise them very hard, yeah, it's possible some would be injured from that and others would be hardened from that. in his own case, this horse was probably the soundest horse i ever owned. >> really? >> i don't think that had anything to do with i'll have another, but, you know, as a breed thoroughbreds are probably more fragile now than 30 years ago. >> is there anything that can be done to change that? i mean, you love horses, you have lots of them. got to be something you think a lot about.
>> well, i think that if you're going to change anything about the racing you might slow the surfaces down sometimes. you know, a lot of it is in the people would say is in the pedigrees and what being bred for speed versus stamina. there are lots of horses that go through their whole career and don't get hurt. so -- >> right. did you feel at all -- obviously i'll have another has had no allegations of any doping, but his trainer has had and he has on going cases. did that affect your decision? >> nothing to do that with that. he was exonerated from the milk shaking and the trainer -- he's responsible for the horse. you know, he'll fight that i suppose. but doug has been really great with our horses and i'm very proud of him. >> and he had to run off and see one of the other horses race. seattle slew trainer was there. he used tough words for the horse racing industry about what happened today. that's coming up.
but now this country and immigration. the new cnn poll out today showed that 75% of americans support arizona's controversial law that allows police to stop and check the immigration status of people that they believe are suspicious. the law which was passed in 2010 became a lightning rod in the national debate over immigration. the obama administration sued and successfully blocked portions of it. saying the state use overreaching federal law. five states have similar laws on the book and the case is in front of the supreme court. a decision is expected later this month. now, the stat, there are more than 11 million immigrants in the united states. they make up 5% of the work force. according to the pew hispanic research center.
of course, latino vote is a key factor in the upcoming presidential election. our political contributor john avlon is here, along with paul callan to help us break this down. so this is -- this is a really interesting -- you know, caught my attention first thing this morning. 75% of americans support the arizona law. this is borne out in other polls because i looked. this is not like an aberration. does public opinion end up influencing the judicial system over time? >> that's been a great argument that's among political scientists as to whether that's the case or not. alexander hamilton said the court has neither a sword nor the power of the purse so they have to rely on public opinion to enforce their decisions. if you look back over supreme court decisions, they tend to be similar and in line with public opinion mostly. but sometimes the court moves slightly ahead of public opinion as they did in abortion and school desegregation and other monumental areas so it doesn't line up perfectly at all times. >> john, it is interesting, poll after poll do show this. >> yeah, this poll is fascinating in particular because if you look at the support, 62% of nonwhites support arizona's controversial
immigration law. >> 62% of nonwhites? >> correct. 56% of democrats. so all the outcry that was incredibly pronounced especially among the activist community doesn't seem to reflect american opinion. even in the groups they allegedly represent. it is striking with regard to this particular law. i think as people making a distinction between immigration and illegal immigration. one of the ironies is that actually border crossings are down under the obama administration in part pause of increased enforcement. >> and the whole point of the law, obviously the worry that people have is racial profiling. i don't look at you and think you're an illegal immigrant. you're being detained for something else, a crime and then they're allowed to the you this question. >> a lot of people were surprised when this was argued before the supreme court. they didn't even focus on racial profiling and say that that was a big problem. and a lot of people said, you
know, that's where the strength of their argument is. that this would discriminate against hispanics. they said it's federal, not state. we should be enforcing immigration laws not local -- localities. >> and the reason they didn't press that point is that point had been explicitly taken out of the law. i mean, this is part of the problem. politics is perception, but sometimes when a hot button issue gets pumped up, we have a heated debate about perception rather than facts. one of the things about this poll and others like it, they state what the law does, not what people are frayed the law would do. >> right. what's been the view here in other states? i mean, they're not the only ones doing this. there's alabama and other states out there, right, trying to do similar sorts of things? >> absolutely. it's broad frustration with the fact we still don't have control of the borders. this is an issue that predates the obama administration. this has been a long-standing issue. actually, again, the obama
administration has actually beefed up border security significantly. arrests are up at the border. partly the reason folks aren't crossing as much is because of the economy, but also because we have increased the barriers to entry. in many cases, walls, other cases border agents. >> there are five other states who have laws on the books which has been upheld for the supreme court. for instance, arizona had a law basically requiring and punishing employers who employ illegal aliens and those provisions have been upheld and similar laws exist in other states. and have been upheld. but you know, i think we're not talking about the one thing that i think is very important with this poll. it's the perception of the economy as well. i mean, i think there's a pessimism out there about the economy and whenever that happens, illegal immigrants get to be the focus of public opinion. if the economy heats up, and nobody cares about getting a job -- >> they're not worried. >> this will fade. >> what do you think the verdict of the supreme court will be? elena kagan recused herself. >> well, you have a court that's equally split with a swing vote in the middle. when she disqualifies herself,
the conservatives who would support the law are most likely going to prevail and i will say one other thing. sotomayor who is generally a liberal was very hostile to the justice department spokesman during the argument saying your arguments don't hold water. i have a feeling that the court will uphold the arizona law. >> i love hearing that about her. she makes the point, if that's true, that she's doing what she thinks the right law is and not what people think her politics are and that's what people want out of the supreme court. >> not sort of the idea that partisanship is part of their judgment. and investigators may have found the drug that could have been the blame for the zombie-like attacks. and the trainer was helping to train i'll have another and he has damning words for the industry. sentation. so at&t showed corporate caterers
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here's one of the suggestions. you can buy greek olive oil. i buy it by helping out countries and look at this. grocery store, two kinds of greek olive oil available right now. >> now some of you on twitter gave me a hard time. you didn't believe me, you were mad. but you know what, it's true. because olives are a crucial commodity. not just for greece, but also for italy and for spain. about 70% of the world's olive oil actually comes from these three countries. that's incredible. there's a big problem. there's an olive oil glut that's causes prices to fall. they're now at a decade low. in fact, prices are so low that the european union has had to step in and take some supply out of the market. it's paying 1 -- for 100,000 tons of olive oil to be stored for 180 days which brings me to the number tonight, 1.1 million. as in tons that's the forecasted
size of the olive oil glut. and just to give you an idea of how big that is, it's the equivalent of a third of global annual olive oil consumption. i have a lot of olive oil. i use a lot of it. so i get a sense that that's big. for those of you who still doubt that americans can make a difference when it comes to olive oil, let me say this. the head of the olive council was quoted by the olive oil times -- yes, there's the olive oil times. it said the u.s. has been for many years the driver of the olive oil sector. thanks to the u.s. the sector has been able to grow without drowning in a sea of olives. there you go. proved my point. go buy the greek olive oil. now our outer circle where we reach out to sources around the world. we go the austria, where there's no progress in the latest round of nuclear talks with iran. yesterday, russia and china came out with a statement urging everyone to refrain from actions that could lead to confrontation and opposing the use of force in
iran. matthew chance was following the story. i asked him how influential china and russia are. >> it's not the unflinching support from russia and china. remember, both countries are concerned about iran developing nuclear weapons. moscow says it supports iran's peaceful use of atomic power. china's president has called on iran to be flexible and pragmatic. a sign he may want the islamic republic to compromise. what both russia and china want to avoid is any kind of military intervention in iran. they both have deep economic interests at stake and they don't want to see their billions of dollars worth of contracts put at risk. erin? >> all right. thanks very much to matthew. now our fifth story, drug enforcement officials are sioux row -- zeroing in tonight on cloud 9 as a brand of bath salt that could be behind the cannibalistic behavior in a string of attacks. i want to show you surveillance video when rudy eugene pinned
down a homeless man and chewed off his face. last night, we told you about a place in florida where brandon deleon tried to go after a police officer. and outfront tonight is alexander ji regard. can you explain what is cloud nine? >> so cloud nine is really one of a number of different types of bath salts that are available out there. they go by names like white lightning. they seem to contain mdpv, methylone and mephedrone. it's been implicated in a number of deaths across the country and has possibly been implicated in miami. >> so how do they get these names? i mean, these are just white
flash, cloud nine, just sort -- does this sort of refer to the euphoria you get when you take them or am i reading too much into them can. >> no, a great idea, a great question. like with the synthetic marijuana, they have the spice, like the second highest mountain peak. when it comes to the bath salt products i think a lot is meant to convey that sense of wow, you want to be on this drug, white rush, white lightning. it's very attractive young people who are looking for pizazz and some excitement in their life. >> so you're talking about the key ingredients that are in the various types of bath salts. is there something in cloud nine that makes it worse or different? >> right, so historically cloud nine has contained mdpv or the methylenedioxypyrovalerone. as that chemical has become illegal across certain state, all the drugs -- the drug dealers have to do is add either a molecule here, a molecule there and you have a whole new drug that's now legal. and that they haven't really tested for any safety or efficacy.
and on top of that, as i always say, one rule -- general rule of thumb when it comes to street drugs is they're never 100% pure. so there could be a number of contaminants in there that could affect the pharmacology, but how they present to the emergency room. >> so could this be an ingredient in cloud nine -- >> it's definitely scary. >> could there be an ingredient that causes this cannibalistic behavior that we have seen several examples of? >> i think what we're seeing -- probably an ingredient in there which we don't unfortunately really know yet at this time, but somehow interacts with the chemical of the brain. it increases dopamine, serotonin and people respond differently to the different chemicals. not everybody is the same. it could be genetics. we don't know why some people behave as cannibals or zombies and other people have no problem at all. that's part of the problem is we don't have studies, we don't have trials.
a lot of what we know about these products are from the patients that come into the e.r. and that are having adverse effects. >> all right. well, thank you very much. and now why many injuries and allegations of doping in horse racing? the most accomplished horse racer says -- >> it doesn't work. it's failed system. >> it doesn't add up? >> it doesn't add up. not in this economy. we also have zero free time, and my dad moving in. so we went to fidelity.
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well, now i'll have another has been scratched from tomorrow's race and no horse will win the triple crown this year. the last one was in 1978. we're in the midst of the longest triple crown drought in history. 22 horses have won the kentucky derby and the preakness and failed at the belmont since that 1978 affirmed win. now, when i was at belmont today, i spoke with billy turner. he trains seattle slew, the undefeated triple crown winner in 1977. he was at the belmont today, helping train i'll have another. i asked him about the shocking news and about what doesn't add up in the big business of horse raising. what's your reaction to today's news? >> real surprise. real surprise. and it's a shocking thing and --
but as a horse trainer, i just know that you can never get too confident. every single day when you go out to -- in the morning you go out to look at that horse, you're just hoping that everything looks the same as it did the day before. i think he had a very, very good chance at doing it. there were three horses in the race that definitely were going to make it a legitimate race. to beat them, he was going to stamp himself as a really good horse. >> why is it that in the '70s there were all the triple crown winners? seattle slew, last undefeated. and then affirmed the year after and that's it. why hasn't there been one since? >> seattle slew probably changed the game because people learned from him that if you did your homework and you went down to the 2-year-old and training sales, you could buy the best horse in the world. more people who got into the
business and the price of young horses started going up. the people that prepare those horses don't have a dog in the fight. so they -- they do all kinds of things to get the top dollar at the sale. you get a good race out of them or two good races and then they -- then problems pop up. >> what's the biggest thing we should do to change that? >> i think change the whole idea of raising for 2-year-old and training races. the truth is it stands up. it doesn't work. it's a failed system. >> doesn't add up? >> it doesn't add up. >> it doesn't add up. something obviously our moniker for this show. the bottom line of what he was trying to say, back in the day you'd buy a horse and then bet on the breeding lines and train the horse and now they run the horses so hard when they're young so that he said run as fast as they ever when they're 2-year-olds and then they're easily injure and conditioned run the triple crown. he thinks we should stop that, intense racing to get the sales